Colleen McKay | Transcending Minds
Colleen McKay | Transcending Minds

Colleen McKay was a stockbroker in her very early 20s in an alpha male-dominated industry. Marginalized, looked over, and even dismissed by her colleagues. Refusing to submit to these perceptions, she worked hard to move up the ladder and win respect from both her teammates and clients. One by one, she brought quality clients to her brokerage, only to find herself in a situation where, through no fault of her own, the brokerage failed, leaving her in the middle of a heated and messy legal battle.

Colleen is not the type of person to ignore responsibility, so she showed up each day to guide her clients while others in her company hid under a rock. Then it gets even worse for her, and I’m amazed by Colleen’s resilience, professionalism, and the tools she used to pull herself out of an extreme low. Now she uses those tools to help entrepreneurs and real estate agents win more business and flow through life by using powerful and more effective language through neurolinguistic programming. You will be inspired by her story and pick up some tactics here.

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Colleen McKay | Transcending Minds

Colleen McKay was a stockbroker in her early twenties in an alpha male-dominated industry. Marginalized, looked over, and even dismissed by her colleagues, she refused to submit to these perceptions. She worked hard to move up the ladder and win respect from both her teammates and her clients. One by one, she brought quality clients to her brokerage only to find herself in a situation where through no fault of her own, the brokerage had failed, leading her in the middle of a heated and messy legal battle.

Colleen is not the type of person to ignore responsibility so she showed up each day to guide her clients while others in her company hid under a rock. It gets even worse for her. I can’t wait for you to know her incredible personal power, how she rises back up, and how she uses those skills to help real estate agents and entrepreneurs overcome their challenges.

Her approach through Neuro-Linguistic Programming is held by some as therapeutic magic. They can also claim that NLP can model the skills of exceptional people by allowing anyone to acquire them. You’ll be inspired by Colleen’s story. I’m amazed by Colleen’s resilience and professionalism and by the quality of the tools that she used to pull herself up out of an extreme low. I hope you enjoy this conversation.


Cocktails & Dreams Real Estate Podcast | Colleen McKay | Neuro Linguistic Programming


Colleen, welcome from Canada. Tell me where are you at?

I am North of Toronto. I’m in a little cul-de-sac. I was born and raised here. I married a guy that’s from here as well so put down the roots and probably will never leave but it’s an area called Bradford. It’s pretty growing in Ontario. It’s one of the largest growing communities but also still has its very small-town feel to it. Love it.

I want to know about Canadian life a little bit because I don’t have a ton of experience with Canadian folk, although all the experience I have has been very positive. I was one time the sales manager of a real estate development. One of the things that we did to set ourselves apart or make us a little bit more competitive was to open our pool early and leave it open a little bit longer. In Missouri, United States, the summer season is pretty much June, July, and August.

We would try to open up our pool in May a little bit and then keep it open until October, which is cold. To give you an idea, it’s 27 degrees here. I feel bad for kids trick or treating because it’s either 90 degrees or 30 degrees in October. I don’t know what it’s like but I would step out of my office and it was right around mid to late October. We hadn’t gotten around to closing the pool down yet, which is dangerous because you don’t want it to freeze.

These people were swimming in the pool, bouncing up and down, having a great time. I stepped outside and had an odd reaction where I leaned in and was like, “Who are these people in this freezing water?” They said, “It’s okay. We’re Canadian. Don’t worry.” I was like, “I get it. No problem.” What is life like growing up in Canada?

In Canada, it’s not that dissimilar. We came from a spell of warm weather, not quite as warm as Missouri but we were in the 19 and 20-degree range. However, we are at a high of 4 and a low of minus 2. It’s a pretty big pendulum swing. There have been weeks where we’ve been at 15 degrees and then the next day has been at minus 3. There have been weeks where we were hitting record highs. One time, we were at a record high where we were pushing 29 degrees. That’s warm for October in Canada, which was heatwave territory.

It’s usually in and around the end of October when things are starting to get pretty cold. Mid to late September things start to dip into the mid to low and then progressively get more. Where we get cold is February. That’s when it’s freezing. If we’ve got a warm May, May and June are when people start to open up the pools and then try to suck out as much of the summer as possible because we do get some pretty fierce winters here. That’s for sure.

I bet. What I’ve heard is it’s not so much about the weather. It’s about the gear that you have. Any kind of weather is okay as long as you have the gear. Tell me a little bit about life growing up in Canada.

I had a pretty great life growing up here. The town that I’m from is a pretty small net community with lots of tightness amongst it. The place that I’m from is also a little bit of a farming community. There’s a place called the Holland Marsh that is internationally known. It’s one of the great growing areas. Grapes are in the Niagara region, which is about 1.5 to 2 hours away from me. We’re well known for growing carrots.

You said a great growing area. I thought you said grape growing area, which was odd for me because I thought grapes needed hot weather. Carrots do well in cold weather though.

What’s so funny is my town’s mascot is Willy the Carrot. That’s how farming community we are. It was a great small-town community growing up, tight-knit. I have friends that I was friends with when I went to high school that we’re still friends with. I’m not going to age myself too much but it’s a couple of decades later and we’re still very close. Our kids grew up together so it’s nice. Growing up in Canada also is nice.

Every country has its benefits and then its drawbacks. Anyone who looks at the news has seen some of the Canadian drawbacks. Overall, I’m very lucky to have grown up in Canada because I’ve gotten all of those benefits that have been so close to my fingertips. Getting all of the different seasons as well. I am more opposed to the summer and spring months. Those are what I prefer. I don’t like being cold so I’m constantly brought up in sweaters and blankets, especially because I work from home in the wintertime. I don’t love to go out.

Yet on occasion, I do like to get out and do some of the winter sports. In the past, I’ve snowboarded. I’ve skied before. I haven’t snow-shooted. That’s something I need to do. I want to give that a try. It’s pretty lucky to get to have all of the four seasons and experience it throughout one year. I’m pretty lucky to get to live here.

It sounds like you’re pretty pleased. I’ve noted a few things already. You don’t get out much and you have deep relationships from high school. That tells me you’re an introvert and you like deep conversations.

I do love deep conversations. I am an extrovert-introvert. I’m a chameleon. It depends on the situation. I do love being in a tight group and talking about things that matter. I also love observing people. One of my favorite things to do is to go out in public and just watch people. I know how creepy it sounds. I do recognize how creepy it sounds. I love to see how people are interacting and how people move and live their daily lives. Also, to think about I wonder what their life is about. I wonder a lot whenever I meet new people. That’s one of the things that I love. I’m an introvert-extrovert because I love meeting new people.

I love going to a new place and having a new group of people that I can ask about themselves and find out who they are, why they are the way they are, what their experiences were like growing up as well, where they came from, what they do, and why they do it. That’s the extrovert side of myself. I also love being on stage too. I grew up doing something called Irish dancing. I competed internationally. From 5 years old up into my 20s, I toured with a dance troupe too. I’m used to being out and about and performing in a way.

Is this like Riverdance?

It is.

It’s extremely difficult and taxing. Did it take you a long time to learn how to do that?

I learned at a young age. I started dancing when I was five. I was one of those dancers that was good or bad. Some years I would win the Canadian championships and some years I would be pressed even place at a regular competition. It was a very interesting learning curve for me because I naturally had talent. From a physical standpoint, I naturally had good muscle memory and the right physical makeup to be able to do both the hard and the soft shoe dancing. As a young person, my brain was everywhere. I had trouble concentrating and remembering my steps.

My dance teachers would always tell me I needed to go into autopilot and dance so that I could dance well because if I was dancing and I was thinking, I would dance terribly. I was also one of those dancers where anything that could happen did happen. I was at a national championship once and it was in Nashville. I was dancing at the Grand Ole Opry. If you’ve seen Riverdance, you’ll see sometimes we do leg kick-ups. I had my dance shoe had come undone and I could feel it slipping off. When I did the leg kick up, my shoe flung up, hit the chandelier, and then landed directly on the judge’s table.

That’s like a weapon. They’re probably heavy shoes, too.

The hard shoes have a thick top and heel. Needless to say, it caught a lot of attention. Everybody was talking about it like, “Did you see that?” It was a funny thing at the same time, me as the dancer, whom it happened to, because I wasn’t getting any points for that. It was embarrassing and upsetting because I had trained very hard to get there. I didn’t get disqualified but I did not place well in that round.

It was a solo performance?

Yes. I did do some group but mostly solo was my competition.

Isn’t it interesting how a lot of times we remember our fluke? I don’t necessarily want to call it a failure. It’s those things that happen that we have no control over. We remember it. It’s such a compelling story because that’s what happens. We’re going along, we plan for the best, and then all of a sudden, a wheel falls off the wagon and we’re left to make a decision. It’s those decisions that define us. How were you defined after that incident?

It was things that happened to me so often. My dance teacher once told me, if I didn’t have bad luck, I’d have no luck. That’s been something that’s followed me. It made me have to learn resilience because I had to be able to compartmentalize things from a young age and still be able to perform at my highs. That was hard. Maybe I was about 13 or 14 when that specifically happened to me.

For every one of those stories, there are hundreds of others of different things that have happened throughout my life that have been similar types of things. I’m at the peak performance, trying to achieve great things, and then something takes me off the path and makes me have to exercise resilience compartmentalization, and then be able to reframe and redirect into a new direction. Sometimes it’s a similar direction and sometimes it’s a different direction as a result. It has scoped who I became doing that type of sport because it required me to perform at a very high level and be able to be a showman and get on stage.

I remember I was 16 or 17 at the time. Days before we were to fly out for the nationals, my grandfather passed away. We weren’t going to cancel the trip because it was a very expensive trip. I’d been training for six months. I had to go and compete. That was a further lesson that life doesn’t wait for you. You have to be able to move forward in a way to achieve the goals that you want and the things that you desire while still carrying the burden of other things that have happened in your past, learning how to create harmony between the two.

Let’s talk about that for a second. I know what you’re talking about because, in my twenties, I was a performer. I was a paid actor. There’s a distinction there between an actor and a paid actor. My college guidance counselor told me when I chose acting and performance as a major, “Are you sure this is what you want to do?” I said yeah. I was guided in that direction. It was the only thing that I was constantly getting affirmed for. I had no other real skills. I didn’t love the attention. I just loved the joy that I created and making someone laugh. I loved the craft of creating a character and all of the things that go behind that. At my core, I’m an artist that has had to cope with real life and my coping skills are very high.

I understand what you mean by compartmentalizing trauma or those derailing events that happen to you. I want to talk about that in more depth. You’re right. A lot of times when we’re performing, this transfers in business and sales because in a way those are performances. You have to be on. There’s a certain level of energy that is required of a performer that most people will never understand.

There’s also a duty to focus on the performance that a lot of people don’t give performers credit for. This is what you’re talking about needing to be laser beam focused regardless of the emotional things or physical things that are happening in your life, staying in character regardless of external stimulus. It’s a skill because most people want to give up. They want to stop and start over. We can’t do that in life. We have to continue, get through the scene, and then evaluate afterward. That’s not an easy skill for people.

I wanted to commend you for being able to do those things. It gives you the authority to coach people and have out-of-body experiences when you’re coaching people so that you can coach people in a holistic 360 way. I know that’s what you do. Let’s go into compartmentalizing. How has compartmentalizing helped you move forward through difficult situations?

I started when I was 21 as a stockbroker. I originally went to school for marketing and advertising. I thought I was going to become an art director. I went into the industry. I was in there for about six months because I fast-tracked. I came out of school pretty burnt out and fast-tracked. I started working, found out I didn’t like what it was all about and ended up becoming a stockbroker.

Was that a difficult learning process? Was it a lot of tests? In the US, there are a lot of exams that you have to pass. It’s a very highly competitive alpha-male sales environment. Was it the same for you?

Yes, so much so. When I got my first job in it, I specialized in the mining sector. I was working for a very prolific family in Canada. They were in history for the mining sector. In good and bad ways, it was an old boys club. I would go to what we used to call the dog and pony shows. It would be these fancy lunch meetings where there’d be 20 to 30 other brokers. We would be sitting there and they would tell us their story about the mine. There are a lot of other different companies that I went to presentations for, not just mining.

What was the purpose of the dog and pony shows? Were you trying to get clients or were they training you how to be a better stockbroker?

They were trying to get us to buy their stock. At these events, they would tell us a story about the stock because they wanted analysts to follow them. Some analysts were there. They would want the stockbrokers to include it in their client portfolios. We do flow through in Canada as well. It’s a tax mitigation tool. They would want us to buy their flow-through shares as well. There are a lot of different reasons why we would be invited to go there but the intent was for us to buy their stock and support their stock participation.

They’re selling you on their company so that you can go sell their stock.

When I would go there, I would be probably 1 of 3 females there. Keep in mind, I was 21 when I started. The females that were there were usually in their mid-40s to late 50s so they were in some ways almost double my age.

Can you describe them somewhat? What were they like? Were they effective, quality, hardened, had they changed you think? Had they compromised or were they powerful? Describe them a little bit.

The first word that came to mind was hard. I’m not saying that in a bad way though. They were powerful because to still be in that space, especially back then and still thriving there, they had to be very powerful women. The woman who mentored me, her name was Pauline Hawthorne. I used to call her Mama Bear. She was very much one of those women.

She was the COO of the brokerage that I worked for and the CFO. She held two titles. She was such a resilient woman because she’d been in the industry. She used to work for a couple of major companies in Canada as well throughout her history. She dealt with the guys who belittled her and did not have a place at the table. She made her place at the table. Some women were hardened by it but they were effective and strong.

The funny thing was that because I was 21 and was coming in, it’s not like they automatically gave me respect. They looked at me and felt bad for me at the same time. Very few of them were willing to help because they had fought so hard to get there themselves that they didn’t want to separate their focus by mentoring somebody but Pauline did. She was amazing. She molded who I was back then. It was so funny. She would always give me the advice. She’s like, “Get as licensed as you can, learn as much as you can, and then keep moving up.”

That was that mentality because you knew. When I was at these lunches, I’d be in the room of the other three females. There would be a very older group of gentlemen and there’s a couple of gentlemen who would always not fight but be like, “You’re going to come and sit beside me today.” It was almost like they wanted to protect me from the situation. I’m sure you recognize certain industries do carry negative connotations about them and what they look at females like. It has gentrified and it’s getting better.

Stockbrokers is one of those professions.

I was a little piece of meat back then to a lot of them. My job was also to bring in clientele as well. I needed to build out my portfolio. I recognized that I was going to probably have difficulty. First off, a high net-worth individual is going to look at a 21-year-old and be like, “Here’s $1 million. No problem.” That was a limiting belief that I had to overcome.

I was very lucky that the brokerage that I was at gave me a lot of opportunities. The owner of the brokerage would throw me deals here and there. I also did a lot of research for the company. I ended up getting some good information for him that helped him win a lawsuit. There were some wins. It taught me the foundation of learning communication because I was dealing with all of these people who were far older than me. They were already looking at me like, “She looks baby-faced. How old is she? What life experience does she have?” There were a lot of limiting beliefs that were being imposed on me.

There was probably some truth to it too when you look back on your 21-year-old self. When I do, I see how arrogant I was and how much I thought I knew the world. That gave me the confidence to go into places that I’d never thought I was qualified to be. I did go to places that I wasn’t qualified to be and learned fast. At the same time, the fact that you were there means that you were qualified to be there in your mind.

I love the confidence that you had. What were your overall feelings waking up every day? Were you putting on your clothes and shoes and saying, “I got to go to this environment again and deal with all this,” or were you like, “No, I’m focused on the work or the learning?” Where was your focus during this time?

It’s both the work and the learning. There were times when I just sighed. Everyone has those periods. Those are normal. Those are what scope of the motivation. I would get up every morning with the advice that Pauline gave me, “Get as licensed as you can. Do as many exams as you can. Get as many under your belt as possible.”

I started and was fortunate and unfortunate. My commute was two hours door to door. I took a train to work. For four hours each day, I could study and I did. I fast-tracked going through all of the licensing and ended up taking a couple of additional courses as well because I wanted to get as licensed as possible. I did options and derivatives. I kept going with my licensing.

To me, the path to success was going to become one of the more knowledgeable people in the room. I did but I lacked the experience. I hadn’t had the worldly experience. I hadn’t been in the industry for twenty years and knew what it was like to participate in a flow-through right off the hop. It was all going to be new to me. As long as I knew a lot of information, I knew that I could position myself as a knowledgeable source. That’s what I focused on doing. It did help me.

That’s when my sales journey began. I was responsible to try and find my clients. Going to your friends and family when you’re 21 years old and being like, “Can you give me your portfolio and I’ll trade for you,” they’ll hesitate. Fast forward, we’ve got seventeen-year-olds that are trading on the stock market and killing it. It’s a different world. Back then, I was like, “I’m going to need to learn to become a better communicator and salesperson as well so that I can communicate what I’ve learned and convince people that I know my thing.”

You need to learn to become a better communicator and salesperson to actually communicate what you’ve learned and convince people that you know your stuff. Click To Tweet

I had the same experience when I started real estate. I was 30 years old and the average age of their real estate agent was 65. It was a job that people took to retire. I was selling investments because the market crashed. My story is that I recognized that investors were the only ones buying. I had to learn the investment side of real estate fast.

What year was that for you?

It was 2006 when I started.

I was not far off from that. I started in 2008 so I know what you mean.

2006 is when I started. I had eighteen months of pretty good momentum and then nothing. That’s when the learning started to happen for me. What I did is I said, “Education is the key as well.” I had that same a-ha. Maybe that’s what you mean by compartmentalizing that time in your life where you’re like, “I’m going to compartmentalize this as a time to learn and let that cream rise to the top.” Time will either expose you or promote you, and it seems like it is promoting you. I realized that I showed up to work in a tie because I had to fool people into thinking I was professional. It’s a perception-based industry, sales, especially real estate.

I realized I didn’t want to live that way anymore because it didn’t feel authentic to me. I wouldn’t normally wear a tie. I felt like I was faking it. I don’t know if you know much about the Enneagram but I’m a three on the Enneagram scale, which is a salesman type. I always felt like I was faking it in front of people. I would always change my personality to meet the way the person was acting. If they were boisterous, I would be more boisterous. I always felt fake by doing it. I always felt like I wasn’t respecting them or being true to myself.

What I found over time was that I was honoring that person by making them feel more comfortable. It was a natural thing that I did. I didn’t even realize that I was doing it until my incredibly intelligent wife told me, “No, this is what you’re doing.” I admire what you did in your twenties and that part of your journey because it’s not easy at all. I love the way that you approach that by learning. When you say you had to fool people into thinking you were professional, I get that. I’ve done that and it’s not easy.

Here’s a reframe that I’d like to give you because that’s what everything is. We are complex human beings. Even when I was that age and I was trying to convince people, I did have the grit. I was probably even better than some of the people who were double my age. For whatever reason, I was more professional. I was trying to be more professional. I wanted to be more professional, which is what made me more professional. Here’s the reality. People like to work with others and be around others that they know, like, and trust.

When you were saying that when somebody was more boisterous, you would also be more boisterous but you didn’t feel authentic to yourself. What I want you to think about is the fact that we as human beings are complex creatures. There are so many sides to us that we don’t even realize are inside of us. One of the biggest learning lessons is getting to know ourselves and learning who we are. Every day, I put effort into learning about myself and I still don’t even know. I know a minuscule about myself. On my phone, I have a document called Opinions I Didn’t Know I Had because I want to write a book out of it.

We, as human beings, are complex creatures. There are so many sides to us that we don't even realize are inside of us. Click To Tweet

We have opinions about everything. We just don’t have it yet. Everything that makes us up is aspects of things. While you were being boisterous and it didn’t feel authentic to you, I’m willing to bet that if you talk to anybody throughout your life before that moment that knew you, they would probably be able to pinpoint a time when you were also boisterous to some degree in a given situation. It’s because we’re chameleons. We naturally tend to not change in a bad way but adapt to different situations because that’s how we survive. You adapt to survive.

When you are with somebody and you begin adapting because you’ve adapted to how they’re acting, you’re creating rapport, which is a fundamental foundation of creating a relationship where they know, like, and trust you. The more that you have the rapport, the more they feel like they know you. The more that they feel like they know you and the more alike you are with them, the more that they’ll like you. Most people feel most comfortable with somebody similar to them unless they’ve got a difficult personality.

You feel most comfortable with people who are similar to you because you don’t have to try to create conversation. It flows naturally. It’s important to think about it. You are multifaceted. Whatever ends up being something that you’re matching and mirroring with somebody is still authentic to you as long as you are mindfully being authentic. Sometimes people will start adapting language that they would never use and it sounds weird coming from them. We never suggest that. The attitude, the idea, and as long as it is within your value as well is important.

Let’s talk about reframing for the benefit of people that don’t know what that is. In the intro that I have given you for this particular show, we’re introducing you as who you are, which is an entrepreneur. You are a business coach, a sales coach, and a student of the human experience. Reframing is a technique that I use a lot, especially when parenting or coaching salespeople who maybe did not get the result that they wanted. Talk about reframing, what it is, and how it’s so effective.

Reframing is key in every aspect of life. I love that you mentioned your kids because I deal with my kids all the time. Here’s an example that I can give. I have had a career as an entrepreneur where I have seen more failures than successes. Failure is something that’s a difficult pill to swallow. You put your heart and soul into certain things, and then for it to not work out and not be successful, it’s hard. Reframing fundamentally, especially coming out of something that didn’t work out, is key.

For everything that I’ve ever been through, I automatically am trying to reframe right away like, “What did I learn from this experience? How do I reuse this experience? How can I grow from it? What can I use to navigate a different path? How can I create a new opportunity out of this?” I’ll give you a little bit about my history. When I navigated out of being a stockbroker, I decided I wanted to stay in the finance space but I wanted to go into alternative. I became mortgage-licensed. I did alternative investments. I was doing a lot of capital raising as well. I was doing good.

What kind of projects?

A lot of real estate projects. I was also doing some alternative ones. When the cannabis space started to erupt in Canada pre-legalization, I did a lot of capital raising for that as well. I participated pretty heavily. I had done such a large amount of work in trying to become a good salesperson. I was also authentic. The core reason why I wanted to go into finance is because I remember when I was young, there was a broker with whom my parents had been handling their money but he lost all of it. It was all of our RESP savings and a large portion of their RRSP savings.

Is that retirement savings?

Yes, and Canada’s retirement. I remember them being devastated by it. The whole reason why I got into the finance space was twofold. One, I wanted to be able to take care of my parents because I didn’t want them to ever be taken advantage of by someone like that again. The guy ended up being not great of a guy. Also, I wanted to be able to protect family and friends and help them make money.

I wanted to be a person who positively changed their lives. I went into the finance space because I wanted to be able to guide them and help them. You think about it. One of the most intimate relationships in your life is the person who handles your money and the person who’s buying or selling your home and your specs. Those are the top three relationships that you tend to have, and doctors as well.

Maybe a dentist, they have their fingers in your mouth. That’s pretty intimate.

That’s pretty true. These are people that are embedded in your life. I wanted to be somebody that was going to do right by people. That was always the foundation of my business. I wanted to do right by people. Here’s where the big reframe comes in. I had worked so hard. I hustled hard. I listened to every sales, business, course, teacher, and coach. One year, I spent $40,000 in coaching alone to build my business. Any sales coaching you can think of, I’ve done. I was doing well.

I ended up becoming the in-office financial person for five real estate brokerages. I was doing good. These people trusted me and I had a little relationship with them, a friend relationship. I went to funerals, weddings, and birthdays. I called these people like it was a friendship. I built it up, going well, making great money, and thriving. I felt great about everything until one day everything came crashing down. Let me preframe this for you. I had no idea what was happening. I had no idea that the products that we sold in the alternative space were represented by different companies.

What’s an example of a product that you were selling at the time?

At the time, Syndicate Mortgages was one of the primary things. If you look up Syndicate Mortgages in Canada, you’re probably going to see the company that I am specifically talking about because it is one of the largest fraud cases in Canada’s history. This company was legitimate. They had a good track record. They had 28 successful projects where clients were bringing in between 8% to 14% annualized rate of return. I was promoting it and selling it to the investors. It was the dream. It was so wonderful.

It was 2017, I had found out I was pregnant. I was planning with one of the real estate brokerage owners how I was going to do an expansion because I specialize in corporate life insurance and how to structure it as a tax mitigation tool and investment tool as well as a living benefit. I pitched this. I was teaching it. I was going to roll it out with the brokerage.

It was going to be a great tool and so forth. Everything was like sunshine and butterflies. That was the Thursday night. Friday morning, I got a phone call. I didn’t know I was pregnant yet. I get a phone call and somebody asks me, “Why is the RCMP in this named company?” I’m like, “What are you talking about?” They’re like, “The RCMP is rating them.” I’m like, “What?”

Is that like the SEC?

Yeah, it was huge. The RCMP is like the SEC but it’s like the police. It’s the Mounties without hats.

It’s the tall people with the stern look. They’re in the building where you are employed.

Since we were independent salespeople, we were all over. The actual building where they did everything was there. I’m like, “What are you talking about?” The next months were horrific. It was a massive fraud. There was a lot of mismanagement and misappropriation of money. There were so many bad things. Anyone interested can go and look it up but it was horrible. My business came crashing down because after that phone call, I got the next phone call from the brokerage owner severing all ties with me. My business dissolved within hours. I lost everything.

Help me understand though. This is a fascinating story and thank you for sharing it. Did you bring clients to investments that were then managed by a fraudulent company? There’s this additional maybe feeling of responsibility. Not that it was but people who trusted you with their money are having to go through a process to recover it. When you say that the broker-owner severed ties with you, was that something that they were having to do with everybody as an employee, or was this a third party that was mad at you for some reason?

The broker-owner was a third party. He was the owner of the real estate brokerages that I’d been in. His relationship with me and what was happening was negative for him.

You were pulled into the reputation of the things that were happening at the company that you worked for, even though you weren’t a bad person.

I was so far down the totem pole. I didn’t know what was going on. I had raised a lot of money. I had raised $11 million for them. Not all $11 million was lost. I’m talking about my parents, my family, and my sister. I lost $150,000 in it. I wasn’t that old at the time. That was everything we worked for. It was horrific. My husband and I had invested together. He trusted me. Everybody who had trusted me with their life savings was being washed away, including my own. That’s when the reframe happened.

I was so far down the totem pole, I didn't know what was going on. Click To Tweet

It took a lot in me. I am a very empathetic person. My clients became my friends because I cared so much. It was horrible. I remember back then I was doing so many lawyers’ calls. We were handling it, trying to navigate indirectly, and it’s still not resolved. They’re up for their charges in 2023. It was a rocky go and I was struggling.

When you say you lost everything, do you mean you couldn’t pay rent anymore?

This is weird. The story gets even funnier. It wasn’t that we couldn’t pay rent because I was very good with our money. I was also very lucky that my husband has a family business. There was a certain safety net but my business shut down. I had no more network. Could you imagine me going out and trying to raise money after potentially all of my clients lost all this money? 1) They don’t have money to invest. 2) Are they going to do it with me again?

What a red mark.

The reason why I went the insurance route and why I still do insurance is because you can’t damage people with insurance. It’s a necessary thing. People need it but it’s also good when structured the right way. I can’t do damage with insurance. That’s why I went that route. All of that, my business, the partnerships that I was in, all of the root business relationships, and a lot of personal relationships, I lost so many friends at that time. I didn’t know what I was going to do next. I had no direction. I was like, “I can’t ever do investments. I don’t ever want to do investments again. I never want to be the responsibility of somebody losing money again.” I was broken.

Can we talk a little bit about the day-to-day if you don’t mind going back to those moments? Waking up and thinking about what are you going to do, knowing you better, and having had a conversation with you, I know that you were able to reframe it and pull yourself out. I want to talk about that. In those moments when you felt lost, talk about what the days were like for you.

I couldn’t sleep at night and every day insisted on me needing to call clients and tell them what was happening, and then needing to book the lawyer calls with them.

You were probably in your first trimester at this point, too.

I had found out I was pregnant. This is where the story gets funny. I’m struggling to get up every day and every day consists of me telling clients bad news, having people wanting to attack me and tell me I’m a horrible person. It’s having to feel people telling me I ruined their lives, feeling the weight of it, and having to get on the next phone call to do the same thing. I picked up the phone. A lot of brokers disappeared but I picked up the phone calls from people to the point that I was picking up phone calls from other agents’ clients and talking to them.

I was fielding and absorbing it all. It was horrible. I was having trouble eating and even thinking straight. I couldn’t sleep. I was at the rock bottom. I was so depressed. I didn’t know what I was going to do. I had no idea where I was going to go. I didn’t know if I needed to get a job at McDonald’s. I didn’t know anything. I was so broken as an individual and then found out I was pregnant.

What’s the name of your first child?

His name is Theo. Every parent is like, “My child is fantastic,” but he’s special. Aria, my daughter, is also very special. He represents resilience to me as well. He is very much my personality as well. He’s extremely empathetic, very loving, and all of that stuff.

He was born in conquest. I’m surprised you didn’t name him Conan or something. Theo the Conqueror, that’s cool. I’m feeling the pain with you. I can’t imagine what those days were like. I also absorb all of that energy and responsibility. That’s why I truly wanted to master real estate investing. My grandparents were my first private equity lenders, as well as my parents and their friends. From then on, other people are trusting you with their money. It means a lot to me. It’s always been difficult for me to see how cavalier people are with other people’s money. I have a hard time doing that.

I’ve got to know that it’s a good investment and that is going to work out. COVID hit. I was in the middle of building a nine-bedroom short-term rental when all of a sudden worldwide tourism stopped. I didn’t know if I should still make the payments on this loan. If I was going to lose the house, it was going to cost $100,000 to furnish this place to get it ready for the market but there was no market. Global tourism had shut down. What do you do in these moments? Here you are in these moments of complete indecision. How did you begin to build your way out?

After we found out we were pregnant with Theo, my house fell apart. We had a rental basement. I was on the phone with the lawyers. My parents were in the house with me. We were talking about what was happening. My tenant comes upstairs. There’s water running down the walls. I go downstairs. Septic pump back up. It came in through the house, started filling the bulkheads, took it throughout the entire basement, and flooded the basement with sewage. I’m talking sewage running down the walls and coming up from the ground.

We had had a weather here. We had had three days of rain, a freeze, and then a massive thaw. That’s what caused this whole problem. I am freshly pregnant shot backing this water. It was horrible. We had to go to the basement. As we were getting the basement, we then found that our foundation had a crack in it. We had to bury the house so that we could have the foundation fixed. Since the septic system failed, to put in a new septic system, we’re going to have to pay a lot of money. It’s the last possible hookup for the town. Let’s fight the bullet and hook into the town.

As we’re starting to do that, we chisel into the ground and we find there’s 1.5 feet of eroded soil underneath our foundation. We need to take up the entire basement’s foundation, dig it down, and then report $100,000 later for renovations. Keep in mind that I was pregnant. At this point, I’m getting more pregnant. I don’t know what I’m going to do in business. I’m still dealing with people calling me daily telling me I’m a horrible person and trying to navigate how to protect these people as much as possible or salvage anything that we could. My house has fallen apart. I’m not feeling great as a pregnant person but my husband kept telling me, “It’s your first time being pregnant. Pregnant isn’t comfortable.”

What turns out is I had kidney stones. Eight months pregnant, I ended up in the hospital for 3 weeks straight. They couldn’t do the imaging to identify specifically what it was so they didn’t know exactly what was going on. It took five doctors to finally say, “You have kidney stones.” Keep in mind that my house was disheveled at this point. We have a bungalow. When you walked in the front door, there were no stairs downstairs anymore either.

You could see right down to a dirt floor. My driveway was ripped up because they were laying the pipe down to the hookup. There was a trench around my house that got coined. We had to do a ramp to the front door. It coined the ramp of death. Had you fallen off that ramp, you’d be falling about an 8-foot drop. Everything was an absolute mess.

During my whole journey and all of the sales courses that I took, that’s when I took NLP. I took NLP or Neuro-Linguistic Programming and Hypnosis in 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015. I am a trainer of trainers so I’m in the highest level of training. I started needing to lean on that. I was falling apart mentally, physically, and emotionally. My house was falling apart. Everything was falling apart.

That slush fund that we had where I was like, “We’ve got money. I’ve got time to decide and rebuild from here,” was getting used up for the house. I had to because everything was on the line. My life had fallen apart and I was pregnant with a baby. I’m like, “I have to figure this out.” I started focusing and deciding what I was going to do.

That’s when I decided about insurance because you can’t do any harm with insurance. That’s when I started focusing on that and also building out. Since I worked so heavily with real estate agents, that was my primary clientele base. I started rebuilding with them and putting in tax mitigation strategies and group insurance, doing all of the things that real estate agents need as part of their foundation.

You can't do any harm with insurance. Click To Tweet

Realizing what their specific financial needs were in their businesses.

I started rebuilding from there. It was slow and steady. I was using all of the tools that I needed to use. I honestly will say NLP was a huge factor as to why I was able to be mentally resilient. With everything that had happened before, when life was great when I was learning to become a coach, I was learning how to reframe, what it took to be mentally resilient, and how to lean on all of the modalities that I had learned to implement. I learned to use them on others to coach others. I ended up using it on myself. If I had not had those in place, I don’t think that I would’ve ever gotten through what I did.

Let’s talk about NLP for a minute. Some people know what it is and some people may not. Neuro-Linguistic Programming was founded right around the 1970s by a guy named John Grinder and Richard Bandler. They were studying geniuses. Talk to us a little bit about that and then how you use those to pull yourself up.

Neuro-Linguistics Programming Foundation is about how we communicate externally with what is happening internally. The way that our brain is made up is to think of us like a computer. We have neuro pathways and neurotransmitters where information is created and then sent over to another part of our brain and processed. All of the information that we are absorbing externally comes into our brains and is then filtered through. That’s how we understand what’s happening. We have something called the model of the world, depending on what your representational system is. You might be visual, auditory, or kinesthetic. Those are the three primary ones.

This means you process the world visually, things you hear, or more things that you touch and feel.

A large portion of the population is visually centric. We take in everything that we see. There’s also another portion that is very sound-centric so auditorily. The kinesthetic is the feel of everything. This is how we take in our world and then we process it. The saying, “Put people out at a sunset and ask them to describe it, they’ll all describe it differently,” it’s because the way that we all process our model of the world is very different from each other.

When we take in that information, it then runs through a program. Everything we do in life has a program to it. The way that you wake up in the morning and turn off your alarm on your phone, if you have an alarm, the way that you make your coffee, and even you turn on your car, everything you do in life is an innate program that’s embedded in you that you run. The reason why we are all programs that we’re running is because it has an expected outcome.

Much of our lives are busy. We have to make choices. When we’re able to go into an autopilot program, we know what the outcome’s going to be so we can do it and not have to use our mental capacity. At any given moment, we are bombarded with about two million bits of information per second that’s coming to us visually, auditorily, and kinesthetically. Due to that, we naturally delete, distort, and generalize the information. Do you know the saying that we only use 10% of our brain? We use 100% of our brain. It’s just being used at different points in time in different ways. We’re only consciously recognizing a small portion of what we’re being bombarded with.

Everything you do in life is an innate program that's embedded in you and that you just run. The reason why we are all programs that we're running is because it has an expected outcome. So much of our lives are busy. We have to make choices when we're… Click To Tweet

With NLP, Richard Bandler and John Grinder recognized that in all of their studies of geniuses. They were also studying hypnosis and all of the great minds behind hypnosis. They were studying people like Milton and Virginia Satir. They were also studying different studies that had to do with how our brains processed those neurotransmitters, took the outside world, processed it internally, and then what we thought about what we were experiencing. From there, they came out with a number of different techniques that can be used to harness your brain power and be able to control your emotional psyche.

Let’s talk a little bit about how we would use this NLP technique when you’re coaching salespeople or professionals because this is a lot of what you do, coaching and taking your experience in the human condition, powerful sales tactics, and results. How would you use some of these principles to help somebody in sales?

In all of the coaching that I do, there are always two main areas of trouble or hurdles that everyone has experienced. One of them is their belief systems or limiting beliefs or preventing them from achieving the success that they deserve. The other one is not having all of the tools to communicate and be able to convert potential prospects into actual clients and close deals.

Those are the two fundamental issues that people run into. There’s a plethora of reasons that feed into both of them. We’re experiencing a pretty difficult market. Everybody is struggling. We’ve got real estate agents who don’t know what to do in life. We’ve got ones who are considering whether they should continue going forward in the industry or change paths.

For people who don’t know the industry that are reading, let’s talk about that for a little bit. The available inventory on the market is as low as it was in 2008. People do not want to get out of their interest rates which are 3% or 4% and selectively move to a home and pay an 8% or 9% interest rate. They don’t want to do it. Inflation has caused the value of our respective dollars to go down. Our buying power and disposable income are less. Therefore, people aren’t moving.

Real estate is a need-based asset. People die, get married, and have babies. Those people are going to move regardless. There are divorces. Some things happen that cause people to need to move or liquidate an asset. For the most part, people aren’t going to say, “I’m going to move. They’re going to wait.” They’re going to postpone that decision because of the market conditions. That trickles down to real estate agents in the form of lower production or having to compete more for every client. With that knowledge for our audience, keep going.

It’s hard because to be successful in anything, especially a competitive industry, for all of the reasons you mentioned, somebody has to be aligned internally. It means their mental psyche and how they feel to be successful externally. When we were going back and talking about all the struggles that I had gone through, during that time, I was so down and out that trying to even think about prospecting would’ve been not even in the question.


Cocktails & Dreams Real Estate Podcast | Colleen McKay | Neuro Linguistic Programming


Who’s got the confidence to try to knock on a door? My results are this that I’m living in. How could I expect it to be any different for somebody else? What a horrible question to ask yourself.

One of the first areas that I start working with clients on is getting them mentally aligned. I’ve had clients who have limiting beliefs that are imposed on them from when they were very small children to clients that had a bad experience with a client that has jaded them and they’re having a crisis of confidence. There are so many different reasons why we have these mental barriers and hurdles that affect us and tell us, “I can’t do this. I don’t deserve this. Can I achieve it?” It’s these limiting beliefs. I start by finding out the core root of that and then building them back up to not just believe but to know that they can do it.

I am a believer. You can do anything. There are certain limitations. Being a Canadian, if I was to be like, “I want to become the next female president of the US,” it’s not going to happen. I’m Canadian. There are a lot of factors that prevent me from being able to do that. Me becoming the next top coach within the next five years who is internationally sought out, that can happen. You being the top real estate agent or real estate brokerage in your area, that can happen. Anything can happen. You just have to have your path.

I start by helping the person understand who they are and why they have that issue, and then helping build them back up and believe that they can achieve it and know that they can achieve it. Also, helping them be able to create and use all the tools. Let me tell you something. Motivation is complete BS. Do you know when motivation hits us most? It’s when we’re lying in bed at midnight and we’re like, “Tomorrow morning I’m going to get up at 5:00 AM, work out, do all of these things before 7:00 AM, and have a great productive day.” 5:00 AM rolls around and the alarm goes off. You’re like, “It’s warm in bed. I didn’t get anything ready for the workout. I don’t even know what I should do to work out.”

It’s negative too outside because it’s Canada.

If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. This happens. This is why motivation is complete BS. What I do is I teach them. “Here are tools to leverage, use, and create your pushing force behind you.” Motivation isn’t going to be there. You’re going to wing. You are going to have good days and bad days. You need to have tools, strategies, and programs. Neuro-linguistic programming. I teach them about implementing programs and rituals so that they stay on track.

Motivation isn't going to always be there. You're going to have good days, and you're going to have bad days. You need to have tools, strategies, and programs like neural linguistic programming. Click To Tweet

Due to all of my business experience and all of my areas of specialty, finance, social media, marketing, and advertising, we then address the business. Every client is an individual. Every client has their specific hurdles, things that they’ve tried that didn’t work, and things that they don’t feel comfortable doing that we need to navigate and figure out a different solution for. We then solve their business because they create goals.

I have all of the clients create the goals that they want to achieve. When I have clients in my actual coaching programs, my coin phrase is, “I drag dead bodies over finish lines.” When I’m working with somebody, I guarantee their success in achieving that goal because I’m going to make them do it. They’re going to do it in an empowered and positive way. They’re going to grow along the way because they’re going to be accountable.

Sorry, I’m a nerd so we have to talk about that. “You drag dead bodies over finish lines.” I like the phrase. It’s attention-getting. What I think you mean is that you’re taking somebody who has lost all motivation or desire to succeed. For some reason, they’ve hired you as a coach. They do believe there is some hope. At what point do they become resurrected? Is it after they get across the finish line or after there’s a belief or a win? Do you help them get to their first win and then they come alive and learn to walk on their own again? Talk to me a little bit about what you mean by that.

Usually, after their first session, they start to get resurrected. Most people, once they understand why they feel hopeless, why they feel limited, and where it came from, we can peel it back and show them how it’s not correct. I do things like timeline therapy. I do belief change exercises. I help people peel back where that belief came from and reframe it into an empowering belief. Use me for an example. I went through everything that I went through. One of my biggest limiting beliefs was how can anybody ever trust me.

How did you answer the question?

I did a lot of self-work and then I recognized I’m an authentically good person. I genuinely do want people to do well. When somebody is thriving and getting what they want and achieving goals, it fills my cup. I genuinely thrive off of other people’s achieving too. It’s so wonderful to see people getting what they want and the happiness of achieving it. At that time, I had to reframe why would anybody trust me to why somebody would trust me. It’s because I’ve been through hell and back. I made it out and I still want to help people.

Do you know why people will trust me? I know what it’s like to be at the bottom and what it’s like to build back up. I’m so invested in somebody’s success that I will pour all of my efforts into making them achieve it. That’s why someone will trust me. I reframed it because when I peeled back all of the guilt, all of the shame, and everything that had happened, I still at my core wanted good for other people. That’s why people will trust me.

When I peel back all of the guilt and shame of everything that had happened, I still, at my core, wanted good for other people, so that's why people trust me. Click To Tweet

That’s beautiful. I have done that for myself and other people. When I have somebody sitting in front of me who’s spouting out lies about themselves, I can tell their lies but they can’t tell their lies. It’s how they feel. For them, it’s real. I ask them to write all those lies down. “Write down every lie that you’re saying.” I’m calling them lies because they are. For you, they’re real. We’re going to write these down. On the left-hand side of that, I want you to write these words. “I refuse to buy into the false belief that,” and then their words are there. On the right-hand side of that, we write the word, “Because the truth is blank.” You have to rewrite that lie in the form of a truth.

It’s an empowering statement then. That’s amazing. That’s a pure NLP technique.

I want to give people a nugget that they can walk away with. Let me put you to the test here because I know you can handle it. Overcoming indecision. We have a lot of clients who are in a fear-based scenario where they want to make a move or don’t want to make a move. There’s a lot of indecision in their personal or professional life. How do you help somebody deal with indecision? How do you coach a salesperson who’s working with a client who has indecision?

One of the powerful techniques that I love to use when somebody is an indecisive point, because everybody’s there all the time, is I have them future pace. I have them envision what their future is going to be like. If they don’t make a decision, have them envision what their future will be like if the decision doesn’t work out and does work out.

This is called future pacing.

It’s by simply envisioning what the worst-case scenario is and then talking through if that’s actual reality. Oftentimes, people are paralyzed because they’re so fixated on that worst-case scenario. Talking through that first and saying, “What is the actual worst-case scenario? What could happen?” Let’s use defaults as an example.

We’re experiencing record defaults happening in candidates starting to trend upwards, which is a scary thing. Let’s say that you are working with a client who has not yet defaulted but they’re feeling the tightness and they’re starting to think about whether or not they should be selling their home. They’re sitting on the fence. They’re in the analysis paralysis or the indecision.

They’re sitting there. I’d say to them, “Let’s talk this through because you are in the power position. You still have control over your situation. I know that it feels like you’re losing control but today you have control. Let’s think about our situation. What is the worst-case scenario? If you were to decide to do nothing at all right now, what would happen?” “I can’t afford the payments so eventually I’m going to go into default. When I go into the defaults, then they’re going to force me to sell my home under duress. When they force me to sell my home under duress, all different scenarios can take place.”

I’ve heard heartbreaking stories of single parents whose homes are in default or they’re undergoing medical issues themselves. Their children are being displaced and they’re having to sell their house. That’s a horrible situation. That’s catastrophizing the situation. You talk about the worst-case scenario. “What’s the worst-case scenario if you were to take control today and you were to put your heads up on the market?” “I don’t want to move. I like my home uprooting my family and everything.” “What’s the worst-case scenario? Talk that out.” You keep having them talk it out and reframing that in a positive way.

“What’s the best-case scenario if we do take action now and decide that we’re going to list next week?” “I’m able to control my situation, stage my house well enough so that it can get the top dollar, or buy myself some time before mortgage default comes so that I can also find a new place to move and not be under duress.” It’s all about empowering them to make the decision and walking them through each of the scenarios. The worst-case scenario is if you don’t make a decision or you make the wrong decision or say scenario, if you make the right decision and reframing it all for them so that they can feel like they have the control that they’re currently lacking.

Does this work on all people or only on people who tend to move away from pain? People either move away from pain or move towards pleasure. It seems like most people move away from pain. Maybe that’s a great blanket tactic to work on a large percentage of the population.

This is a tactic that will work on everybody because you can very easily change it. I was given that negative scenario, “What’s the worst case?” “What’s the worst case if we don’t make a decision? What’s the worst case if we make the wrong decision? What’s the best-case scenario here?” You can do the negatives versus the positives, the pros and cons. You are right. There is a small group of people who are more influenced by going towards a positive but the majority of the population is influenced to get away from the negative.

That’s like a caveman thing that is ingrained in us but it works like that. That specific tactic works on everybody. It’s all about the way you reframe it. The only caveat that changes is the way you reframe it for the person. With some successful reframing, it’s like you are uncovering something for them. People are scared. If we think about the world in general, one of the biggest reasons why the world turns to chaos is fear. You get people that monger up the fear and then the world starts going a little bit crazy because they’re afraid.

Helping to calm someone’s fear not only helps you close the sale but also helps you create a lasting relationship. If you can take somebody from a fear scenario, give them comfort, and then guide them toward the positive, they’ll remember you. They’ll want other people to feel that too. Regardless, even in a perfect scenario, buying or selling a home is a scary thing. There are so many things that could go sideways. Having somebody who is in your corner protecting you means the world of difference.

Helping to calm someone's fear not only helps close the sale but also creates a lasting relationship. Click To Tweet

It’s true. You having been through so much are so powerful because it’s like, who do you want to operate on your heart? Is it the heart surgeon who’s never had anything happen and everything’s always gone right or the person who’s learned a few things, the person who has been in the mix and operated well under pressure, or has learned to function under pressure even?

That’s the first skillset, function under pressure and then excel under pressure. I’m glad to get to know you because we can have more conversations in the future. I would love to bring topics to you in the future and have you back on the show. You’re a phenomenal person. Is there anything else that you want to get across on this that you want to tell people?

A lot of people are nervous about the world in general, especially in the real estate space, what’s going to happen in the future, and the market. What I want you to know is that with the right tools and resources, you can thrive even in a downward market. When we both were in the industries and starting in professional careers, I started as a stockbroker in 2008. We were facing market crashes and I still was doing well. Anyone can thrive in different circumstances.

In the 1930s when we were in the Great Depression, that’s when the most amount of wealth was created for the wealthiest people still in this world. Don’t discount yourself based on what’s happening from a global level. All you need to do is believe in yourself and then figure out the tools and the programs that you need to run to get there. Success is just a program. I can honestly tell you that. Every day I wake up and on my good days and my bad days, they’re all the same type of strategy I take that day. “Today’s a program. Here’s what I need to do and the steps I need to take to get towards my goal.” That’s what you’ve got to do too.

I agree wholeheartedly. It was in the 2008 timeframe that I discovered my pathway for short-term rentals and began to guide a lot of people into that asset class and help build a lot of wealth for a lot of people. Even as that industry continues to pivot, and some people say it is done, and some people say it’s oversaturated, to that I say, “What metrics and data are you using?” When we can use data and context together, we’re able to process that through our experiences and produce something actionable not only for ourselves but for other people.


Cocktails & Dreams Real Estate Podcast | Colleen McKay | Neuro Linguistic Programming


One of the truest statements I could make is that not everyone needs advice but everyone needs encouragement. Thank you for providing both to people. I enjoy your Instagram channel Transcending Minds. I encourage everybody to go there to consume all of Colleen McKay’s wisdom and great personality. Thank you for being a light in the world. I look forward to getting to know you better. Thanks so much for your time and for being on the show. Tell us what’s next for you and then how we can get ahold of you.

I am working on five different courses that are meant to help people with everything from limiting beliefs to how to build a sales system that is going to guarantee their success. As long as they do the steps, I guarantee their success. I’m also working on two books. One is about incorporating NLP into your sales system using different languages and how to connect with people on a deeply emotional level using the different rapport channels as well. I’ve got another one that is centered around finance, understanding finance, not being afraid of it, and learning how to communicate based on that.

Those are the big things that are coming from me. I have a big goal as well. I want to help a minimum of 100 people achieve their goals. That’s a big thing that I’m working towards as well with all of my coaching clients. There’s going to be a lot coming from me in the next little while but most importantly, I want it to be an open communication platform for people to be able to support each other as well, especially as we’re in such different times that we’re facing.

Is your Instagram channel the best way for people to connect with you?

Yes. On Instagram, @Transcending.Minds. Also, on TikTok it’s @TranscendingMinds. We’ve got our website, where they can find out all about the different course and coaching offerings. Most importantly, my introductory calls are free. If anybody ever wants to get on and do a 30-minute sales audit, learn about their process, give a couple of tips that can help them, they have a limiting belief that they could use reframing, or anything, make sure that you check out the in my bio of my Instagram and book a call with me. I do love to help and I’d be more than happy to jump on a complimentary call to do just that.

Thanks for giving us a chance to get to know you and for being authentic and sharing your story. We look forward to chatting with you again.

Thank you. I look forward to it as well. I appreciate the platform you’ve created to be able to share.

Thank you. It’s not easy as you know. If you’re reading this, please let us know if you like what we’re doing because we love to hear good news. Thanks again, Colleen. We’ll see you down the road.

Thank you.

A big thank you for reading to the end of the episode. I know your time is valuable. I hope you got a few takeaways that are going to help you get a greater return on that time. I know you will. If you did enjoy it, I’d sure appreciate a share or a comment. Feel free to subscribe for instant access to new episodes and offers. There’s also a ton of free content and ways to learn more and engage more at Until then. We’ll continue to bring you recipes for success and real stories from real people who like you are living out your divine purpose. God loves you. No matter what happens, don’t give up.


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